upgrade to 8900AX-2400:why the following issues?

[gatekeeper]

I've just upgraded from an 8800NL to an 8900AX-2400. The latter is now in service on my FTTC (VDSL2) line. I've configured the 8900AX manually. A couple of issues have arisen, and I'm wondering if someone in this forum could shed some light on them.

1). What is this latest recommended firmware for the 8900AX-2400? The header section of these forums suggests that, for the 8900AX-2400, the latest firmware is v.2.52.d27. However, reading through some of the 8900 topics discussed last Spring, a further firmware update, v.2.52.d31, was introduced (but made available elsewhere). Version d31 was apparently to cure a bug in the wireless driver where occasional dropouts of the 5GHz operation occurred. Is this v.2.52.d31 in fact okay to use, and from where can I download it? Assuming it is currently an approved, fully tested update and I obtain it, after doing the update should I restore to the factory defaults and then manually reconfigure everything, or should I opt for restoring all my current settings?

2). Why in the xDSL stats section of the device do I still not see any realistic figures for Upstream? For example, in the part of the stats table that shows counts of HEC, OCD, LCD, Total cells, Data cells, and Bit errors, all of these are permanently showing zero, for Upstream. Surely, it simply cannot be the case that no errors of any kind are generated in the upstream direction?! The same applies to the Attenuation figure for Upstream - it's showing the attenuation as zero (my FTTC connection includes about 700 metres of copper line between the house and the street cabinet, so I'd expect to see an upstream attenuation figure of 12 - 20 dB). Perhaps more importantly, why is the Upstream Power so incredibly low? It's currently showing 2.9dBm for the Upstream power level. The corresponding Downstream figure is okay, being 12.9dBm. Surely, in a modem-router of this presumed quality, more-sensible figures for these should be showing?

[billion_fan]

I've just upgraded from an 8800NL to an 8900AX-2400. The latter is now in service on my FTTC (VDSL2) line. I've configured the 8900AX manually. A couple of issues have arisen, and I'm wondering if someone in this forum could shed some light on them.

1). What is this latest recommended firmware for the 8900AX-2400? The header section of these forums suggests that, for the 8900AX-2400, the latest firmware is v.2.52.d27. However, reading through some of the 8900 topics discussed last Spring, a further firmware update, v.2.52.d31, was introduced (but made available elsewhere). Version d31 was apparently to cure a bug in the wireless driver where occasional dropouts of the 5GHz operation occurred. Is this v.2.52.d31 in fact okay to use, and from where can I download it? Assuming it is currently an approved, fully tested update and I obtain it, after doing the update should I restore to the factory defaults and then manually reconfigure everything, or should I opt for restoring all my current settings?

2). Why in the xDSL stats section of the device do I still not see any realistic figures for Upstream? For example, in the part of the stats table that shows counts of HEC, OCD, LCD, Total cells, Data cells, and Bit errors, all of these are permanently showing zero, for Upstream. Surely, it simply cannot be the case that no errors of any kind are generated in the upstream direction?! The same applies to the Attenuation figure for Upstream - it's showing the attenuation as zero (my FTTC connection includes about 700 metres of copper line between the house and the street cabinet, so I'd expect to see an upstream attenuation figure of 12 - 20 dB). Perhaps more importantly, why is the Upstream Power so incredibly low? It's currently showing 2.9dBm for the Upstream power level. The corresponding Downstream figure is okay, being 12.9dBm. Surely, in a modem-router of this presumed quality, more-sensible figures for these should be showing?

Latest firmware is attached this firmware resolves a issue when using the EWAN port with a PPPOE connection 1500 MTU.
You can use d31 or d34 you should be fine, you can restore your settings it should be fine (both firmwares have the same DMT code)

Regarding the stats as the 8900ax-2400 is using a newer DMT code, that might be a reason why you haven't seen any errors on the upstream yet.
The attenuation showing for the upstream as zero is normal, I had the same issue with a BT homehub which was also a broadcom chipset.

The output power is the amount of power transmitted from the exchange and your modem, this is calculated between the modem/exchange, and we haven't had any reports of false reading on the 2400. (in fact the 2400 is one of the best performer on VDSL with the combo of chipset and DMT code)

I wouldn't worry too much, as long as your line is stable and does not drop out

[gatekeeper]

So there's been an even further firmware update issued, then? I'll probably give that d34 a go.

Regarding restoration of settings, reading between the lines, your reply kinda suggests that the user opting to have his/her own settings automatically restored, rather than going right back to the factory settings, has only ever been a problem where the DMT code has differed. Have I understood that correctly, then? And BTW, to automatically restore your own settings, do you need to save those settings as a file?

I can't quite believe that it's accepted as normal that the Upstream attenuation should show as normally zero. Surely, this bug/omission has existed in all Billion modems/modem-routers for a good many years and, with the evolution of new models and therefore newer Broadcom chipsets, should have been corrected by now? My understanding is that, with the 8900 series modem-routers, a completely new chipset was devised, and so therefore why wasn't the opportunity taken at that stage to correct this anomoly? IMHO, it's really bad form on Billion's part not to insist with Broadcom that this be corrected. After all, one of the really useful features of Billion modem-routers is their comprehensive error loggings and tables of stats.

As regards Output Power, you say that this is the amount of power transmitted from the exchange to the modem. Well, that isn't quite correct, is it, because Output Power has a downstream figure as well as an upstream one (as is evident in any event by the stats table in the modem)? So, output power depends on the direction - whether out from the modem, or in to the modem from the DSLAM. As I say, my 8900 is saying that that level on the Upstream side is a paltry 2.9dBm. On the 8800NL, which I was using before and under exactly the same broadband setup, the Upstream Output Power, as given in the 8800NL's stats, was 5.1dBm, and I thought that THAT was extremely small! I think that the only conclusion I can come to about this, therefore, is that all the data gathered and displayed by the 8900 for the Upstream side of things is just random rubbish and none of it can be relied upon.

[billion_fan]

So there's been an even further firmware update issued, then? I'll probably give that d34 a go.

Regarding restoration of settings, reading between the lines, your reply kinda suggests that the user opting to have his/her own settings automatically restored, rather than going right back to the factory settings, has only ever been a problem where the DMT code has differed. Have I understood that correctly, then? And BTW, to automatically restore your own settings, do you need to save those settings as a file?

I can't quite believe that it's accepted as normal that the Upstream attenuation should show as normally zero. Surely, this bug/omission has existed in all Billion modems/modem-routers for a good many years and, with the evolution of new models and therefore newer Broadcom chipsets, should have been corrected by now? My understanding is that, with the 8900 series modem-routers, a completely new chipset was devised, and so therefore why wasn't the opportunity taken at that stage to correct this anomoly? IMHO, it's really bad form on Billion's part not to insist with Broadcom that this be corrected. After all, one of the really useful features of Billion modem-routers is their comprehensive error loggings and tables of stats.

As regards Output Power, you say that this is the amount of power transmitted from the exchange to the modem. Well, that isn't quite correct, is it, because Output Power has a downstream figure as well as an upstream one (as is evident in any event by the stats table in the modem)? So, output power depends on the direction - whether out from the modem, or in to the modem from the DSLAM. As I say, my 8900 is saying that that level on the Upstream side is a paltry 2.9dBm. On the 8800NL, which I was using before and under exactly the same broadband setup, the Upstream Output Power, as given in the 8800NL's stats, was 5.1dBm, and I thought that THAT was extremely small! I think that the only conclusion I can come to about this, therefore, is that all the data gathered and displayed by the 8900 for the Upstream side of things is just random rubbish and none of it can be relied upon.

When restoring configs, if certain features are added, then you must reset back to factory default settings to ensure all changes within firmware are implemented correctly.

It not just billion devices not showing the output power it is also BT's own equipment, so I can only put this down to how the broadcom chipset interacts with the DLSAM/line card

I also just plugged up my test unit and upstream stats are showing normally (running 2.52.d34 fw)

[gatekeeper]

I've just downloaded the d34 edition. I did it on my Windows machine rather than my Mac, as I found in the past that Billion firmware upgrades tended to stall on the Mac. So, I'll execute the d34 firmware upgrade entirely on the Windows machine, probably some time tomorrow, as I've a host of other non-computer tasks yet to fulfill today. BTW, I see that it's of afw format, and my memory's now very rusty on Billion firmware updates, so to start the process do I merely double-click on the afw file that's now sitting on the screen Desktop of the Windows machine? And then what? I seem to recall the extracted file needing to sit alone in a dedicated top-level folder on the machine.

I'm not sure what to make of your test setup stats, billion_fan, but undoubtedly in your case the upstream side is certainly working, at least in terms of error counts.

[billion_fan]

I've just downloaded the d34 edition. I did it on my Windows machine rather than my Mac, as I found in the past that Billion firmware upgrades tended to stall on the Mac. So, I'll execute the d34 firmware upgrade entirely on the Windows machine, probably some time tomorrow, as I've a host of other non-computer tasks yet to fulfill today. BTW, I see that it's of afw format, and my memory's now very rusty on Billion firmware updates, so to start the process do I merely double-click on the afw file that's now sitting on the screen Desktop of the Windows machine? And then what? I seem to recall the extracted file needing to sit alone in a dedicated top-level folder on the machine.

I'm not sure what to make of your test setup stats, billion_fan, but undoubtedly in your case the upstream side is certainly working, at least in terms of error counts.

You need to upgrade the firmware via the web gui. (the afw file is the firmware which is not zipped)

1. Login to the router
2. Click on 'Configuration >> System >> Firmware Upgrade'
3. Select the 'afw' file, and set either 'Factory Default Settings' or 'Current Settings'
4. Click on 'Upgrade'

[gatekeeper]

Ah, I remember now. Thanks.

I think that, on the basis that I've no idea what precisely the various mods to the firmware are, from my current d27 edition to the d34 edition, it'll be better for me to tell it to revert to the factory settings as it completes the process. It'll be a longwinded fag for me then to have to input all my configuration settings again from scratch but hopefully I won't need to do it too often over the lifetime of the device.

[gatekeeper]

billion_fan and any other interested parties,

I've now upgraded the firmware of my 8900AX-2400 to v.2.52.d34.

I opted for the 8900 to be returned automatically afterward to its factory defaults, rather than to my existing settings. The flash process caught me out about two-thirds of the way through it, because I suddenly got a message onscreen to log into the router and, when I did (trying several times), it refused to let me in, and the process became circular. But being the forgetful dimwit that I am these days, it then suddenly dawned on me that the flashing had probably finished and therefore what I needed to input as login was simply the 'double-admin', not the username and specific password I'd hitherto set up. Retrying with the correct login therefore then worked.

One thing I've subsequently noticed is that version d34 (and possibly this applied to some earlier ones too) has a Logout from the GUI at bottom-right of screen. However, when I proceeded to try this out, it didn't clear the GUI from the screen, instead I was asked to log in again! Only when I completed the login did the current page of the GUI disappear. But it still left me in the GUI, displaying just a portion of it on the screen. If I then tried logging out again, this transformed to a pink screen with a small message on it saying that authorisation was required, and the logging in caption re-appeared.

For the present, I don't think I'll therefore bother using that Logout facility at bottom-right. Instead, if I want to fully log out of the 8900's GUI, I'll switch to a website, close the browser, then re-open the browser.

Actually, what I've described about Logout may or may not be an 8900 bug. It could just as easily be an incompatibility issue with my current Apple browser, which is quite an old version now. I've been meaning for several months to finally update that browser but have been putting it off because the process would require a completely new version of the computer's operating system and therefore a good deal of work on my part. I'll see if I encounter the same issue with the Logout with my other machine, which runs the Edge browser. Meanwhile, you might want to test the Logout process yourself, on your own machine(s), if you've not already done that. I'll post back here within 48 hrs to let you know what transpires.

[billion_fan]

billion_fan and any other interested parties,

I've now upgraded the firmware of my 8900AX-2400 to v.2.52.d34.

I opted for the 8900 to be returned automatically afterward to its factory defaults, rather than to my existing settings. The flash process caught me out about two-thirds of the way through it, because I suddenly got a message onscreen to log into the router and, when I did (trying several times), it refused to let me in, and the process became circular. But being the forgetful dimwit that I am these days, it then suddenly dawned on me that the flashing had probably finished and therefore what I needed to input as login was simply the 'double-admin', not the username and specific password I'd hitherto set up. Retrying with the correct login therefore then worked.

One thing I've subsequently noticed is that version d34 (and possibly this applied to some earlier ones too) has a Logout from the GUI at bottom-right of screen. However, when I proceeded to try this out, it didn't clear the GUI from the screen, instead I was asked to log in again! Only when I completed the login did the current page of the GUI disappear. But it still left me in the GUI, displaying just a portion of it on the screen. If I then tried logging out again, this transformed to a pink screen with a small message on it saying that authorisation was required, and the logging in caption re-appeared.

For the present, I don't think I'll therefore bother using that Logout facility at bottom-right. Instead, if I want to fully log out of the 8900's GUI, I'll switch to a website, close the browser, then re-open the browser.

Actually, what I've described about Logout may or may not be an 8900 bug. It could just as easily be an incompatibility issue with my current Apple browser, which is quite an old version now. I've been meaning for several months to finally update that browser but have been putting it off because the process would require a completely new version of the computer's operating system and therefore a good deal of work on my part. I'll see if I encounter the same issue with the Logout with my other machine, which runs the Edge browser. Meanwhile, you might want to test the Logout process yourself, on your own machine(s), if you've not already done that. I'll post back here within 48 hrs to let you know what transpires.

From my finding once you click on the 'Logout' button you will be prompted with pop up asking if you want to confirm you wish to log out followed by a 'Logged Out Successfully ' message, then close the web browser, and login again if needed. (tested with 2 PC's and with IE and Chrome)

[gatekeeper]

I've now tested 'Logout' on my Windows machine, which runs Win10. Yes, on that, I find that, upon clicking 'Logout' at bottom-right, I get a pop-up asking me to confirm that I wish to log out of the router's GUI. Then clicking OK does certainly clear the CURRENT page - BUT IT DOESN'T TAKE YOU OUT OF THE GUI. Instead, it merely takes you back to the first page of it, the Summary. Therefore you are still in the GUI. This is wrong, and so surely if Logout is to mean anything it needs to take you COMPLETELY out of the GUI?

As regards the peculiar things that happen when I try logging out on my Mac, I can only conclude that that's due to the Mac's browser now being too out-of-date and so having some incompatibilities with the 8900's firmware, and therefore the functioning of the 8900's GUI. (Some of the features of Billion forum content don't work for the same reason, I think, so I'm pretty sure that my Mac definitely needs updating).

But my Windows machine is most certainly up to date. I noticed, on the Windows machine, that because logging out still leaves you in the GUI (and therefore you're not logged out at all!), the only thing that's then possible to do (at all!) is to exit the browser entirely (therefore ending the browser session). You don't even seem to get the opportunity to just switch to, or go to, a normal website; you're forced to exit from the browser, and so if you wish to interact with a website from that moment on, you have to completely re-open the browser. The same is the case on the Mac, as it happens.

This, in my view, is a terrible way of working (but thankfully not required very often, as normally you wouldn't be constantly accessing the router's GUI, though of course it'd certainly annoy users with a regular interest in the line/LAN stats). You might just as well not have that logout feature, and just be able to switch to a normal website instead. However, if you do that, you leave a security loophole in place, in that if the firmware gives you no ability to specifically log out from the router and you remain within the current browser session, then access back into the router's GUI without signing in is possible and represents a potential risk that someone other than the GUI's administrator, but yet someone who might normally legitimately use the self same machine, would have unfettered access to the GUI. Unless I'm missing something, I think that not only have the Billion developers got the logic wrong (or rather, muddled) in this regard but also the basic logging-out process itself, when used, doesn't in fact take you out of the GUI. If I'm right about this, it'd need immediate attention.